JClearwater
Wooden Canoes are in the Blood
Just trying to educate myself - does anyone have pictures of a Carleton Indian Princess model? What years was that model offered?
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks,
Jim
Carleton Indian Princess
- Thread starter JClearwater
- Start date
The Carleton Indian Princess model was listed in the catalogs from 1914 to 1941. It was essentially the Carleton version of an AA grade canoe from Old Town. The description from the 1928 catalog is shown below. More information like this is available from http://www.wcha.org/store/historic-wood-canoe-and-boat-company-catalog-collection in the full set of Carleton catalogs. The threads at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/7462/ and http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/9668/ have more pictures. Let me know if this doesn't answer your question.
Benson
Benson
Last edited:
David Satter
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Jim, 1926 Carleton Indian Princess. I just finished her. If you need more photos let me know. Yes, I know the ribs aren't stained , he wanted them that way.
OP
OP
JClearwater
Wooden Canoes are in the Blood
Thank you Benson. Nice job Dave - beautiful! I was thinking that the Indian Princess had long decks as in a courting canoe. Was that an option or am I thinking of an entirely different model?
Jim
Jim
Long decks were an option for any model. The one at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/9668/ has long decks. There is even an example of a Molitor model from Carleton with long decks.
Benson
OP
OP
JClearwater
Wooden Canoes are in the Blood
Thanks Benson. By long decks I was thinking the really long decks like the Charles River builders did. The canoe in the link you referenced certainly is a nice one and will be even nicer once restored. Some day I will own a courting canoe but I'll have to pick better lottery numbers. The ones I have picked to date have not worked out as planned.
Jim
Jim
David Satter
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Wow, These photos come out big now. Maybe i should have clicked thumbnail. Starting a 1948 18 foot OTCA with 20 inch decks today.
Carleton defined long decks as 30 inches according to the 1928 catalog below.
Old Town listed long deck options from 30 up to 60 inches as shown in the 1926 catalog.
These were really just guidelines since most builders would customize a canoe to any degree that a customer was willing to pay for. Keep looking, there are a few of these canoes still around.
Benson
Old Town listed long deck options from 30 up to 60 inches as shown in the 1926 catalog.
These were really just guidelines since most builders would customize a canoe to any degree that a customer was willing to pay for. Keep looking, there are a few of these canoes still around.
Benson
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Here's a wrinkle - Not too long ago we picked up a 1922 Indian Princess (click on the attached thumbnail below). It was apparently built originally as an Old Town Molitor, and for then pulled out to become a Carleton Indian Princess. It has mahogany trim as described on the catalog page, but it's build is nothing like a typical Carleton. The curvature of the stems is Molitor-like, the outside stems are "chubby" (i.e., oval in cross section), and it has 36" bow and 24" stern decks. It also has oval mahogany outwales, and the sweep of the sheer is distinct.
Michael
Michael
Very nice, the thread at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/3647/ has some information about another Carleton Molitor. I am curious to see the build record so what is the serial number on this one?
Benson
Benson
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Hi Benson - The serial number is 16605 17. The photo I posted above doesn't really show the stem profile well, so I'll post another here. It's what I always think of as a Molitor-style stem curve.
Tnic
Paddlewon Canoobie
DO keep us posted on the OTCA resto Dave. Having just acquired one, I'll be very interested in your progress.
That is a nice one and in great original condition. The stem curve could also be described as a Morris-style if the theory is correct that these first originated in response to a request from C. J. Molitor in Belle Isle after B. N. Morris's factory burned. The Molitor shown at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/12325/ even has pocketed ribs like a Morris with the same stem curve.
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Yes, agreed about the "Morris curve", Benson. It's distinctly different from the circular profile of many Old Town, Carleton and Kennebec canoes, the beautiful curve of a typical Morris, the emerging torpedo of later Morris canoes, and the profile of the 60s and later Old Town Molitors. This early profile is unmistakable. And your eye is good - the "Black Maria" is very original including canvas and paint. The various added-on metal do-dads, though, are "interesting"! This one was really tricked out back in the day with nickel-plated rails at both ends, and port and starboard lights mounted to the bow deck, powered by a battery underneath the deck. I remember yours, but I never thought to check whether this one has the pocketed ribs like yours does. I'll try to look tonight.
I'll be surprised if yours has pocketed ribs since they would defeat the utility of having open gunwales. Most of the later Molitor models had open gunwales like the one shown at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/4175/ from 1922.
Benson
Benson
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Pocketed ribs on an open-gunwale canoe... Duh! What was I thinking??? I've got a couple of early Otcas where the open gunwales close up to a double-gunwale style at the ends, but even there the ribs are just thinned down, not pocketed. Anyway, typing faster than thinking... thanks for keeping me on the path, Benson.
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Yes, Carleton (born Old Town?) #16605 from 1922 is open gunwale; I was thinking maybe the ribs might be pocketed at the ends, but I don't recall every hearing of or seeing anything like that. I suspect it's typical open gunwale construction even under the decking. The two Otcas I referred two are both from 1916, and construction where the gunwales transitioned from open to double at the ends seems to have been discontinued by the late teens.
