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Canoe serial # info

Discussion in 'Serial Number Search' started by kmartin, Nov 13, 2008.

  1. kmartin

    kmartin Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Hi:
    I just picked up 3 canoes. Can someone send the info on them please.
    one is an Old Town OTCA serial # 94733 17' with sail rig and a neat brass centerboard.
    The next is an Old Town #109182. Charles River model maybe.
    The last is a Kennebec sailing canoe with a tough to read # 22620 17'
    Thanks, Kevin Martin
     
  2. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The Kennebec canoe with serial number 22620 is shown on pages 136 and 137 of volume four in the Kennebec ledgers. This was assigned to 17 foot long Kennebec model type A. It was planked by Roy on the June 29th, 1935. The canvas covering and first filler coat were applied by Giroux on the same day. C. Thib. applied the second filler coat on July 6th, 1935. It was railed by Mansell on the same day. The "F 22" (Function number 22 or the keel?) was completed on July 13th, 1935 by Thib. The "F 24" (Function number 24 or the thwarts?) were completed by Thib. on June 20th, 1936. The original color was "gr" (green?). It shipped on June 23rd, 1936 to location "36-197". This location is probably an order number but we don't currently have enough information to identify it.

    The scans of this build record can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below. The original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.

    The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) as you probably know well. I hope that you will renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to join.

    It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if these descriptions don't match your canoes. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

    Benson
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The Old Town canoe with serial number 109182 is a 17 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, HW (Heavy Water) model with red Western cedar planking, open spruce gunwales, oak decks, oak trim, a keel, and a floor rack. It was built between February and March, 1931. The original exterior paint color was deep(?) orange. It shipped on April 24th, 1931 to Patterson, New Jersey. It was returned for credit on September 19th, 1931 and then shipped to Wolfeboro, New Hampshire on June 17th, 1932 as shown on the back side of the card.

    The Old Town canoe with serial number 94733 is a 17 foot long, AA grade, Sailing Canoe model with red Western cedar planking, open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks, mahogany trim, a keel, outside stems, a floor rack, centerboard, bang plate, rudder, and mast step. It was built between May and June, 1927. The original exterior paint color was dark green. It shipped on June 23rd, 1927 to Wolfeboro, New Hampshire. Please post some pictures of the centerboard and trunk on this canoe. Thanks,

    Benson
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Kathryn Klos

    Kathryn Klos squirrel whisperer

    Is the general form of the sailing canoe model the same as the HW?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    kmartin

    kmartin Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    It looks like an OTCA to me. Has the same size decks and general shape. I put it under my shed out back. Will try to take photos tomorrow. Working alone now so it depends on if I get help. The trunk is thin mahogany that goes from one thwart to another. Keel is wider maybe 4" where the slot is cut with a pivot pin through the side of the keel for the centerboard. About 1/4" brass board with holes in the top for cotter pins for lowering to a few positions. Kevin
     
  6. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    There is a small fleet of these on Big Wolf Pond in the Adirondacks. I believe I was told they are Otcas as well.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    kmartin

    kmartin Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Here are some photos of the OT sailing canoe.
    Kevin
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Very interesting! Have you measured the size of the boom, yard, and calculated the size of the original sail? I have this type of a jaw for my 1919 sailing canoe but wasn't sure that it came from Old Town until now. Does this canoe also have the shallow triangular rudder that was typical of this period? Does it have a round hole in the mast step like the one from 1919 shown below? Thanks,

    Benson
     

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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  9. OP
    OP
    kmartin

    kmartin Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    The mast measures 9'8" and spars are 12'6". Seems like the typical size. There are screw holes every ft or so along the spars so it must have had a track or something. The mast step is round. A photo of the rudder is below. I noticed in an old forum post that you were looking for info on the old style rudders. The photos show one I have. I always thought it was a Rushton from looking at the catalog info I have. After seeing your post it may be an Old Town. Kevin
     

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  10. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

  11. MGC

    MGC Scrapmaker

    Mine is set up exactly like this including a rudder that looks like the first one in your set of rudder photo's. As noted by Dan it is what's known up here as a "Wolf Pond" canoe. I have always wondered if there were others built. Now I'm curious how many. Where did you find yours?
    Heavy canoe eh? This is one that I need help to carry.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    kmartin

    kmartin Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    This canoe was ordered by someone on Lake Wentworth in Wolfboro NH. Then sold to someone else on the lake and I got it from him. Benson The old rudder hardware is spaced 6" apart.
     
  13. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The Old Town database project lists three of these canoes as shown in the build records below. This is not enough for an accurate estimate of the total number built but there were probably many more than the five that have been identified so far in this thread.

    I measured the sail rig for my 1919 sailing canoe today and it is slightly smaller than Kevin's. The mast is 117 inches, the boom is 135 inches, and the yard is 138 inches. The sail is badly ripped but appears to have been 132 inches on the foot, 136 inches on the luff, and 160 inches on the leech with no roach or battens. This works out to be about 60 square feet and is much more vertical than the traditional lateen shape. This one also has "Leg of Mutton" hand written on the corner of the sail at the clew. How big are the ones on "Wolf Pond" canoes and are they still using cotton sails or have they converted to Dacron?

    The gudgeons on my 1919 sailing canoe are 4.5 inches apart so Kevin's rudder must be from a double ended rowing boat which has a much longer and more vertical stem.

    We'll have to get these all together for the Assembly this year!

    Benson
     

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    Last edited: Nov 23, 2008
  14. Pernicious Atavist

    Pernicious Atavist Canoe Sailing Publisher

    Kevin, Benson, great exchange! Thanks!

    Ed
     
  15. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    On the water

    The second image below shows how it looks on the water last weekend for anyone who wasn't at the Assembly. The first image is from the 1927 Old Town catalog which confirms that this canoe was built on the Otca form as Kevin and Dan suggested previously. Kevin also confirmed that the bronze centerboard alone weighs 16 pounds.

    Benson
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009

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