Can you ID this 'Old Town' ??

rowboat

Curious about Wooden Canoes
Esteemed Canoe Folks,
I have a 15' square stern canoe, that appears (to me) to be an Old Town judging from the front deck, and the diamond head bolts holding the seats and thwart.
There are a few mysteries however:
  • No Serial number
  • Front stem looks funny
  • I don't think Old Town made a 15' skinny square canoe

It's possible that someone squared the end, but if so they did a real professional job. The outer gunwales are rabbited into the transom, and the transom brace is fitted over the ribs.

Any clues?
 

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Your canoe was built by B.N. Morris of Veazie, Maine, sometime before 1920. The bow deck has been replaced. It is not the first canoe that started life as a double-ender and had an end cut off to install a transom for an outboard motor.
 
Dead Horse

Not to keep kicking the dead horse here, but given recent posts, couldn't this canoe also be a Kennebec with a splayed stem.

Andre - where is your dead horse pic?

I am just wondering. These conundrums just bug me.
 
Thanks for the quick response, and interesting too!
Dan, I looked up the ID info on Morris, on your website, and have this to add:
The ribs are 3/8" thick, and taper to about 1" wide on the inside, and 1 1/4" on the planking side.
There is a screw through every rib attaching the keel.
There are 3 non-bent ribs (I know there is a name for this) coming off of the stem.

What did the open style Morris gunwales look like? Perhaps this canoe was redone with Old Town parts?
 
Yeah, I suppose it could be, but my guess would be the odds are slim. Remember, the number of Kennebecs with splayed stems is very small relative to Morrises, or Kennebecs with regular stems. Looks like the gunwales are replaced too, so wouldn't use them to characterize it. If there are keel screws in every rib, that would point to Morris, as would evidence of rivets for the stem bands (though this isn't seen on all Morris canoes).
 
The following two videos may answer some of your questions. After watching them, you'll know I am sitting here panting-away, awaiting your return with answers to questions such as "how many cant rib pairs?" (I am thinking you've already found three), and "are there four tack holes in the stem, or in the inwale?". It might be possible to whittle-down the possible date your canoe was built.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAz-rspieqE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN462MWTABc

(let me know if the videos don't come up right...)


Fitz: you make a good point. The Kennebecs I've seen had a different profile though... leading me to think that if they began life at the Morris factory, they were worked on at Kennebec and the splayed stem was basically the only remaining Morris vestige. But I think we've seen pictures posted here, showing a canoe that looked very much like a Morris. So... if those tack holes are present, it would more likely be a Morris.

Kathy
 
Kathy,
Just for you, I applied some paint stripper to the stem. No holes! Nice videos!. My boat does have the floor toggles made out of stem band.
 
Conundrums

Fitz: you make a good point. The Kennebecs I've seen had a different profile though... leading me to think that if they began life at the Morris factory, they were worked on at Kennebec and the splayed stem was basically the only remaining Morris vestige. But I think we've seen pictures posted here, showing a canoe that looked very much like a Morris. So... if those tack holes are present, it would more likely be a Morris.

Yeah, I know, but the owner hasn't shown us a profile. Also, it seems someone at the Kennebec factory really, really liked splayed stems, so I think they did it themselves.

I guess I agree with the every rib keel installation(which may be more of a indicator, although it looks like a later keelson was installed with screws at every rib), and I did notice the rivets, and was leaning toward a Morris, but wouldn't rivets make more sense with a cedar stem anyway?

I don't mean to question anyone or jump to conclusions, but this is a forum and this is how we learn so maybe we shouldn't assume splayed stems are automatically a Morris? Like I said, just wondering.

Fitz.
 
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End

Oh boy, someone took an Old Town and put a splayed stem in it!!::D

Kidding (I think).
 
People shouldn't feel they can't question something that appears to be taken for granted... as you said, this is how we learn... and it pays to explore these ideas.

It seems to me that the person at the Kennebec factory who loved splayed stems would have had to be someone in a decision-making role... not a mere factory worker. I get a kick out of the ways in which "the little guy" attempted to make his mark-- for instance, on Morrises in the early teens, someone put the serial number plate in the opposite direction, with the short end parallel to the splay of the stem. I've mentioned this before and I know other folks have discovered similar things on other canoes. "The little guy", it seems to me, can only make a small statement and not do something that might involve the integrity of the canoe, as changing the shape of, and materials used in, the stem. Perhaps Kennebec decided to try-out the construction techniques used by Morris? One Kennebec-Morris we've inspected was c.1910-- the year Kennebec began.

Although we can only speculate, I like the fact that questioning the Kennebec/Morris connection was brought up a while back-- it made me stop and think about something I'd thought was "fact"... and the fact that many of the things we believe about these canoes we love and their builders are something that was arrived-at because of discussions and not because it was a known truth. It pays to shake these theories up from time to time and see what falls out.

But, it's also true that the Kennebec/Morris hybrids are rare... and the stem in the picture appears so Morrissy that saying "it's a Morris" comes out of the mouth without a pause.
 
Morris

Yes, I think Morris makes sense and agree with you all. There is also no serial number stamped into the stem which Kennebec was prone to do.
 
What did the open style Morris gunwales look like? Perhaps this canoe was redone with Old Town parts?

My open gunwale Morris (circa 1915) has cant ribs tops mortised into the inwale. The rib tops are also faired quite flush to the inwale sides. This all seems to make for a narrow and delicate bow end. Don't know if my example is typical of all Morris models or whether Kennebec used similar technique in the bow. I guess what I'm saying is that your cant rib tops don't look like mine.
 
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