Rotti123's Chestnut restore main thread. (lots of photos)

[Rotti123]

At least I think it's a Chestnut. A fellow member suggested it might be.
I plan on posting many photos and asking a lot of questions as I attempt to get this canoe in shape. I thought it would be best to keep it all in one thread.

This is what it looked like when I bought it.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1184.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_0753.jpg

Removing the canvas. The canvas was very wet inside.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1310.jpg

The wood seems very solid and smooth on the outside. It feels a little flaky on the inside. Because of all the cracked and peeling varnish I suppose.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1303small.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1305.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1306.jpg

[Rotti123]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1312.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1317.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1319.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1321.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1323.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1324.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1330small.jpg

[Rotti123]

I'm not sure how much of the planking I will have to replace. The first row near the gunnels feels soft and will need to be replace for sure. The rest feels solid other than some cracks and a couple of holes. The ribs are solid from end to end.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1332.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1331.jpg

Four cracked ribs.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1334.jpg

This is I think the worst part.....
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1325.jpg

Something must have crushed the end.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1327.jpg

More pictures and lots of questions to follow...

[MikeCav]

As you consider replacing planking, you might think about breaking up the sections where the newer planking all ends in a straight line along one rib. The rule of thumb is 3x3. end planks three ribs apart from each other, three planks apart. The current arrangement of the replacement planking is putting a lot of faith in the strength of a single rib.

[chris pearson]

I'd bet a cold Saranac that its a later E M White Guide. Looks 18 + feet to me? Later because the rib thickness isnt tapered, they thinned them out as the approached the gunwales, earlier on. They also bevel lapped the planking(do some of the older planks look beveled) perhaps that was a feature earlier as well. The decks look correct as well.

-Chris

[Andre Cloutier]

Chris, you're on. But could we make it a case?:D

[Dave Wermuth]

I think you may have to buy somebody a Saranac something or other. I'm guessing Canadian, Chestnut as thought. I have an original 60's Chestnut in the barn with the same deck. I'd bet a Tim Horton's that the gunnel screws are phillips head. those are great photos and even tell a story of years gone by and some one's hard work. Today we pretty much take for granted that we don't let several adjoining planks end on the same rib. Because now 'we have the internet on computers'. (to paraphrase Homer Simpson)

:-]

[Dave Wermuth]

the thwarts are the same as the Chestnut in my barn. And if you look at the original planking you can see some fairing marks that look to have been made with a rasp or something. That is also on the Chestnut in the barn.

[chris pearson]

Crap, after looking again, it isnt very E M White(y) from the outside lines. Beer anyone?

[Andre Cloutier]

Chris, rather than beer can I ask you about the gun you're using in your booth in the other thread? looks fancy shmancy and anodized etc - I'm still using the old binks gun for the odd thing i spray these days, but very much want to get an hvlp gun - do you have any suggestions for a good performing, moderately priced unit, or any pitfalls to avoid?

[chris pearson]

Andre,
To be honest, I paint my models at work, where I'm an industrial modelmaker(auto interiors). Anyhow, I learned alot from guys that have finishing backgrounds and I am not "the" expert. The gun we paint with is a Devilbiss gravity feed gun, big coin!!. We also use smaller gravity feed guns but this gun is so nice, I use it for most everything. The theory is that you spray more paint onto your work and less atomizes in the air. We use a number 15 nozzle for paint. Also, an HVLP gun for spraying primers is used, with a larger nozzle. I would say that you could get away with most any gun as long as its a gravity feed. They do spray nice and can be dialed in perfect. I also think they are more forgiving for those of us that arent strictly spraying for a living. I'm sure there are those that will argue my choice here and I think its opinion. Although I think most are going gravity feed nowadays. I still prefer to brush paint and varnish on full sized canoes, it goes on thicker and less hazardous. I also brush varnish on the models as well. I hope this helps you.
-Chris:)
P.S.- Heres a couple photos of past projects. One is a model we made for this years Detroit Autoshow. Its all one of a kind modelwork. Fun to do but its no canoe!!! The boat and trailer is a 1957 Crosby glass/wood runabout on a Tee Nee trailer and a Merc 400 outboard. I restored all of it. I found the trailer in a farmers field and bought the boat for $125.00.

[Rotti123]

As you consider replacing planking, you might think about breaking up the sections where the newer planking all ends in a straight line along one rib. The rule of thumb is 3x3. end planks three ribs apart from each other, three planks apart. The current arrangement of the replacement planking is putting a lot of faith in the strength of a single rib.

Yes I can see how it would be much better to stagger the plank ends. I will definately do that. Thanks.

[Rotti123]

I think you may have to buy somebody a Saranac something or other. I'm guessing Canadian, Chestnut as thought. I have an original 60's Chestnut in the barn with the same deck. I'd bet a Tim Horton's that the gunnel screws are phillips head. those are great photos and even tell a story of years gone by and some one's hard work. Today we pretty much take for granted that we don't let several adjoining planks end on the same rib. Because now 'we have the internet on computers'. (to paraphrase Homer Simpson)

:-]


The gunnel screws are Robertsons. Are they original? not sure. They do look old enough to be original. The very last ones on each end are a nut and bolt with a flat head on the bolt end. The canoe is 17 feet long. Tomorrow I will take more measurements and post the results. Is there any chance it's a Miller? They are made very close to where I live.

[Andre Cloutier]

Thanks Chris,
was contemplating buying a cheaper gun but didnt want to waste my money - the binks is great but as you know only about 40% of the paint actually hits the project and you mist everything in a 15' radius.
Your boat project looks fantastic, I can see it all in my minds eye when you found it - would make my wife weep openly - but she now understands the end result after all these years;) You've got to post a "before" pic!
Now that we're done hijacking the thread, Rotti you've got what looks to be a chestunut for sure, to determine what model take some measurements and have a look on Dragonfly Canoe's website. It'll be a great boat when its done,still lots of life left in it.

[Rotti123]

From measuring today I get 17' long, 34 inches wide and 13 inches deep.

The closest matches for a Chestnut would be a (1967) Cronje cruiser. Which one member already suggested it probably is. Or a (1967) Crocket guide special.

[chris pearson]

Rotti,
My apologies as well, your canoe looks "fast" to me, nice lines.
-Chris

[Rotti123]

I removed the varnish, or most of it and gave the canoe a bath of deck cleaner to brighten things up. The next thing that I would like to do is repair the inner rails and the front and rear stems. I'm hoping that I can just add some new wood to the existing rails and replace whats bad. As for the stems I'm thinking of trying to save them with some dry rot repair type liquid and wood epoxy. The stems are all there just soft and split close to the deck.

Varnish off
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1584.jpg

Cleaned and dry
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1835.jpg

[Dan Lindberg]

Rotti,

Thanks for posting and answerig my question. :)

I'm also thinking Chestnut BTW.

I've got a 18' Guide's Special coming this weekend, (I hope) that looks a lot like yours, long, lean, and red. :)

The differences are the 18 vs 17 ft and the close ribs on the GS.

Keep the pics coming.

Dan

[davelanthier]

Chestnut cruiser, circa 1970.

[Rotti123]

Thanks Dave. Do you know where I could have one of the seats re-caned? The one that is still on the canoe is fine, the other I removed and the canning is starting to come appart.

[Scot T]

Why not cane the seat your self? It's easy and shouldn't take more than an evening to do a seat. I get my supplies from these guys http://www.franksupply.com/ but there are lots of good suppliers out there. Just type "caning supplies" into your browser.

There are lots of folks here (including myself) that can help you out with information if you need.

[Scot T]

BTW the cane pattern on that seat does look like the six-stage weave pattern used by Chestnut....and others. Maybe another feather in the Chestnut camp.

[Rotti123]

Well if it's doable I should give it a try. It just looks intimidating at first glance.

[Canerodz]

What are the bolts that hold the thwarts and seats made of, and do they have square nuts or hex?

[davelanthier]

Rotti -Chestnut used Robertson screws for the outwales and keel. Slotted screws were used on the brass stem bands. Unlike other manufactures they usually used 4 carriage bolts rather than 2 for the center thwart. Just finished a 16' cruiser guide special. See pictures. Note the close ribs as compared to yours. If you can restore the rest of the canoe you can cane the seat. I would do both as the other one will probably go soon too. That's the way it seems to happen. The bolts at each end are correct for this Chestnut model. Hope this helps. Enjoy!

[Rotti123]

What are the bolts that hold the thwarts and seats made of, and do they have square nuts or hex?

I think they are steel. The bolts are seized in place prety good. Everything else I took off like the screws for the outwalls were brass and came out no problem. I also think the bolts have hex nuts. I'd have to double check but I'm prety sure.

[Rotti123]

Rotti -Chestnut used Robertson screws for the outwales and keel. Slotted screws were used on the brass stem bands. Unlike other manufactures they usually used 4 carriage bolts rather than 2 for the center thwart. Just finished a 16' cruiser guide special. See pictures. Note the close ribs as compared to yours. If you can restore the rest of the canoe you can cane the seat. I would do both as the other one will probably go soon too. That's the way it seems to happen. The bolts at each end are correct for this Chestnut model. Hope this helps. Enjoy!

Very nice canoe. If mine turns out half as nice I'll be happy. Those ribs are really close. Other than that it looks a lot like mine. So closer ribs would mean a stronger boat and a little more wight I suppose. And yes I think I will have a go at the seats myself and I may as well do both. Thats a good idea. Hopefully I will make some progress on the canoe this week and I'll post more pics.

[tolesh]

Dave what is that color? Sea foam green maybe? It would be a good color for a fishing boat. Would look like the sky from below.

[davelanthier]

The only color that this model was available in was what Chestnut called "gray". It's really a a pea soup green and was a favorite color for many Chestnut purchasers. Wouldn't be my first choice. The WCHA home page shows a Chestnut in the same color.

[Rotti123]

A little progress.

BEFORE:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_1325.jpg

AFTER:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2495.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2506.jpg

[mayday]

Hey this is Jeff from Tennessee...did you replace the entire inwale or do a scarf joint and replace just the dry-rot and brken inwales? Also, did you or are you going to bend the inwale or leave it flat?

[Rotti123]

I just replaced the last three feet or so on each side. I did a scarf joint. Not as long as I would have liked. Probably around 6 to 1. I really don't know how people manage to do a really long scarf joint. (my wood working skills are very limited)
I didn't bend them but they seem to have taken the shape of the old ones prety well.
I'll be posting some more photos soon.

[Rotti123]

Just needs to be sanded
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2672.jpg

Starting work on the back
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2674.jpg

[Rotti123]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2686.jpg

[Rotti123]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2705.jpg

[Rotti123]

Well my canoe was in peril today and not just from my terrible wood working skills. We had a thunderstorm blow through and the winds knocked several trees down including this one.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2718.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b123/Rotti123/Canoe/IMG_2721.jpg

When I looked out the window of my house and saw this I thought she was a gonner for sure. Turns out just one branch was pressing down heavily on the canoe but it did no damage.
The project continues after some cleanup.

[Scot T]

Whew! That was close.

One of my two 16' Greenwood Prospectors, awaiting restoration, suffered a simular fate except that the tree connected. Lucky for my heart it happened before I got it. It's got a half dozen or so broken ribs, two broken thwarts and maybe 6-8 feet of planking needs replacing. Plus canvas, varnish and paint of course. All in all not too bad. Just have to get around to it.

I've been enjoying this thread and all the photos so I'm very glad you and your boat didn't suffer a serious set back.

[Neil B]

I'm new to this forum, and new to wood and canvas canoes (the restoration and construction of them at least), and my wife and I restoring a chestnut right now too, so I just had to reply. Our canoe (We can call it that now. It looked more like kindling to us when we first got it) took a fateful flight from a car at 60 mph (needless to say canoes aren't designed for flight) and it's been sitting in my uncles garage for the past 30 years as a busted heap. It's our first canoe restoration and it's been quite a learning process, which has caused a few headaches and sleepless nights, but for the most part has been really rewarding and enjoyable. Seeing your pictures and questions makes us feel like we've got a partner out there, and that maybe we're not so crazy for tackling this project with no experience in the restoration of wooden canoes. Here are a few pictures of our project (if I can figure out how to post them). I hope I'm not stepping on any toes by posting pictures of my boat on your thread. I just wanted you to know that somebody else out there is sharing in your journey.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm3/nebrauer/originalresize.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm3/nebrauer/ribbending.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm3/nebrauer/stretchingcanvas.jpg[/IMG]
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm3/nebrauer/canoefinishedresize.jpg

[Rotti123]

Very cool. It looks like you did a great job. Thanks for posting. I'm hoping to get back to work on mine this week.

[Kathryn Klos]

Wonderful job... but we need to see it on the water, too.

And isn't it interesting how helpful a cat can be?

Kathy

[Neil B]

Thanks for the compliments! Your boat is looking great too, and boy do all your pictures look familiar! We're pretty proud of the work we've done on ours so far, even if the finished result is far from perfect. I've done enough other building projects to know that most of the blemishes and mistakes that drive you crazy during the building process tend to fade with time, and we've really tried to keep that in mind with this project. Not to mention with something like a canoe, it's only a matter of time that usage scars will give it a wonderful storytelling patina that far overshadows the building mistakes. We plan to get it on the water next weekend. We hope to put the last coat of paint on tomorrow, and then cane the seats during the evenings of this week (too bad the Olympics haven't started yet)

On another note, and I plan on starting a new thread about this, as I imagine my wife and I aren't the only amateur builders with this problem but we're having some serious issues with the tension changing depending on the weather esp. the humidity and temperature. So if you have any insight into this problem or just want to commiserate, please view my other thread. "Temperamental Canvas"

Also- Rotti123, if there was still any doubt in the raging debate about whether your boat is a chestnut, check out the attached picture. You'll recognize the boat, no doubt, but there's a visible chestnut decal on the deck.

[Rotti123]

Yep that sure does look like my canoe. Work is still on hold because of bad weather and lack of spare time. Hopefully I will get back on track soon.